Talk:Remensa

The term remensa

Though sometimes used in this way, it is not quite correct to call these serfs remensas. Remensa is not a type of serf but a type of serfdom. The people are properly called payeses de remensa / pagesos de remença.

Also, the plural of remença in Catalan is not remenças but remences. The a becomes e in the plural, and this entails the loss of the cedilla.

Furthermore, the original Catalan term should be given precedence over the Castilian adaptation of it. Chameleon 10:32, 17 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Sorry about screwing up the Catalan plural. I should have known better. I was looking at Spanish-language documents, and the different orthography rules didn't come to mind. -- Jmabel | Talk 18:02, Nov 17, 2004 (UTC)

Although it is a shortening of pagesos de remença or remensa peasants, it is also fully correct to call them remensas, because that's what the sources do:

• Como es sabido, los remensas se alzaron en armas contra sus señores en 1462 y 1484. (As is known, the remensas took up arms against their lords... (S. Cavaciocchi; isbn=8866555614)
• Within those limits, Fernando's early measures favoured the remensas but his first encounter with the Catalan Corts in 1480.. (A. Ryder; isbn=0199207364)
• These remensas had begun to revolt in the region of Besalu in March... (R. Tate; books?id=dQkNAQAAIAAJ)
• This decree was suspended in 1456, however, when the remensas failed to obtain adequate amounts of money from the Catalan Corts, which favored the nobles, ... (D. Burg; isbn=1135959994)

Many more where those came from. In addition, it's not a "type of serfdom" either, although the remensa is characteristic of that type of serfdom. The meaning of the word is payment or remittance or redemption; it's the fee they paid to redeem or liberate themselves from servitude to their lord. Mathglot (talk) 00:26, 30 June 2017 (UTC)

Further to this topic, there is the issue of noun gender. When used in the sense of payment, it is feminine: la remensa / las remensas. When used in the sense of a (male) peasant, it is masculine: el remensa / los remensas. While a minor exception to the rule, this is by no means a rarity in Spanish; consider: el dentista, el policia, el poeta, el artista, el guardia civil, el periodista, for male holders of these positions. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mathglot (talk • contribs) 01:16, 1 July 2017 (UTC)

Catalan-language article

The Catalan-language article takes a very different angle on this; probably translation of material in both directions would be in order. -- Jmabel | Talk 03:44, Apr 7, 2005 (UTC)

I've deleted references to a third language that is not the original language or the language of this Wikipedia. Llull 11:00, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Llull, one side effect of this edit was to completely remove the spelling remensa, which is used in most languages other than Catalan and French. Yes, that spelling is probably of Castilian origin: I don't think that is a reason to completely leave it out of the article. - Jmabel | Talk 05:56, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

The original term is in Catalan. And the English form is not "remensa". To put here the Occitan, Aragonese, Arabic or Spanish (languages that these days were spoken near but out of the area) adaptation is a nosense. Think that the word doesn't exists in the offcial Spanish dictionary (DRAE) Llull 15:45, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Although it is true that the original Catalan term should be given precedence over the Castilian version, the English term takes precedence over both of them on en-wiki, and the English term is, in fact, "remensa" as ngrams or a book search will confirm. I have swapped the redirect and the article to restore "Remensa" as the title in English. Mathglot (talk) 02:16, 12 June 2017 (UTC)

External links modified

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Split to War of the Remences

I've repurposed the former redirect page War of the Remences into a full article about the War. None of the content there is new, since I copied 90% of this article there since this page was mostly about the War, pretty much everything except the lead paragraph here. To complete the split, I'm deleting everything here except the lead paragraph, and a bit of supporting bottom material.

The {{copied}} template at the top of the page documents the split. Mathglot (talk) 01:06, 30 June 2017 (UTC)