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Pea soup was proposed for deletion. This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was to keep.

Well, we had quite the discussion about this in #wikipedia chat, and eventually agreed that posting it on VFD to gather a consensus would be the best way to go about it. So: I feel that the article partially needs to be transwikied to the Cookbook, which leaves us with an article which is purely an attack on Apple pie, which I'm sure some of you are aware has been going through some controversy. The image in the pea soup article is purely a parody of the image on apple pie, and while I have no opinion on the apple pie image, I don't feel that satire is Wikipedia's place. Others feel that the recipe is justified, in that it provides depth in information about pea soup, and that the image represents, as it says, Finnish cultural icons, whether it is designed to make a point or not. I do not have issue with the information about pea soup in Finland (though it is perhaps a little POV, on second look), but I feel that without any information on pea soup itself, the article is without worth. Opinions? - Vague | Rant 09:38, Nov 21, 2004 (UTC)

  • Transiwki part, keep the bit about Finnish culture. —siroχo 10:42, Nov 21, 2004 (UTC)
  • Well, an article on "pea soup" is not wholly a bad idea. It has a part in English culture too (it was a staple of the working classes, and of course, as a consequence London smogs were named after it). I don't know what the controversy is about apple pie but I think an ironic glance at another article is a nice touch and, if done well, not necessarily something that needs to be frowned on. Recipes are out though. Keep but it should be mercilessly edited adn the recipe sent to whoever collects these things.Dr Zen 10:57, 21 Nov 2004 (UTC)
  • I vote keep since I think that this is a subject that could be expnanded (pea soup isn't just a part of finnish culture). Transwiki the recipe this isn't a cookbook. Jeltz 11:37, 2004 Nov 21 (UTC)
  • Keep Pea soup is notable, and encyclopedic. not to say that the article couldn't use some transwiking or cleaning, but I think the article should stay. McKay 14:14, 21 Nov 2004 (UTC)
  • Once you move the recipe to Wikibooks and delete the irrelevant parody content, this article will boil down to "Pea soup - A soup made of (among other things) peas". I don't see how this can be expanded into an encyclopedic article. I'm willing to be proven wrong but right now I consider this a transwiki and delete. By the way, the connection to Finnish culture is properly discussed at Hernekeitto, not here. Rossami (talk) 16:09, 21 Nov 2004 (UTC)
  • Keep it. [[User:Radman1|RaD Man (talk)]] 16:13, 21 Nov 2004 (UTC)
  • It's a joke! Look at the sarcasm in it. At any rate, the recipe should be transwiki'd to Wikibooks. A less "funny" article on the cultural importance of pea green soup to Finns could take place in the Culture of Finland article. Geogre 16:19, 21 Nov 2004 (UTC)
  • Keep. Pea soup is a basic food item of importance in a number of cultures. I don't know about Finland, but IIRC erwtensoep (sp?) is a classic item of Dutch cuisine. Pea soup is mentioned in Aristophanes The Birds. A novel by Thackeray contains this exchange: "Why don't you ask some of our old friends? Old Mrs. Portman has asked us twenty times, I am sure, within the last two years." "And the last time we went there, there was pea-soup for dinner!" Mrs. Timmins said, with a look of ineffable scorn. In Tess of the D'urbervilles Tess says "we have several proofs that we are d'Urbervilles....we have a very old silver spoon, round in the bowl like a little ladle, and marked with the same castle. But it is so worn that mother uses it to stir the pea-soup." There appears to be a "Pea Soup Andersen's" restaurant in California. [[User:Dpbsmith|Dpbsmith (talk)]] 16:33, 21 Nov 2004 (UTC)
    • "Pea Soup Andersen's" is indeed a local landmark in Buellton, just up the road from me (don't worry, I won't write an article on it). Btw, Andersen's is Danish, and they used to have their menus bilingual in Danish--I'm wondering if pea soup is a part of Scandinavian cultural in general. Antandrus 16:39, 21 Nov 2004 (UTC)
  • Keep. Lose the recipe, but the topic seems at least marginally encyclopedic to me. Antandrus 16:39, 21 Nov 2004 (UTC)
    • On second thought, keep the recipe. The article's looking quite good now, thx to Dpbsmith. 23:48, 21 Nov 2004 (UTC)
  • I found another article about peas soup. Specifically about Swedish pea soup. Ärtsoppa means pea soup and I don't really think that the subject pea soup is is pig enough (yet at least) to justify an article about the Swedish version (I don't know what the regional differnces are). Jeltz 16:51, 2004 Nov 21 (UTC)
    • This is the wildest guesswork, but I would think that dried peas were historically a plentiful, cheap, nutritious food that could be stored without refrigeration, and pea soup the result of reconstituting them. I'll bet it was an important diet element anywhere peas were grown. [[User:Dpbsmith|Dpbsmith (talk)]] 18:06, 21 Nov 2004 (UTC)
      • That is also my belief but I leave any deeper analysis to an expert of the subeject. Jeltz 22:07, 2004 Nov 21 (UTC)
  • Keep. Pea soup (in the form of dhal bhat) is still the staple food of parts of Nepal. Gdr 21:14, 2004 Nov 21 (UTC)
  • Keep. And Pea soup, Hernekeitto and Ärtsoppa needs merging cause they are all about the same thing, just in different languages. bbx 21:22, 21 Nov 2004 (UTC)
  • Keep. Delicious article. Beautiful soup. The theories about its intent, whether true or not, are irrelevant. It's not a disruption to create a useful article! And this one looks like it will develop into a real beauty. Andrewa 23:44, 21 Nov 2004 (UTC)
  • Wow. Why would anyone delete this? Keep. Andre (talk) 23:45, Nov 21, 2004 (UTC)
    • Andre, perhaps you should read the article as it was when I VFD'd it: [1]. I don't think it's fair to judge my actions based on the current version. - Vague | Rant 05:04, Nov 22, 2004 (UTC)
  • Keep - the article today is definitely noteworthy thanks to the work of various people. BTW User Vague also deserves praise for putting it forward so that the improvements could be made. Capitalistroadster 10:00, 22 Nov 2004 (UTC)
    • I second that sentiment. IMHO, this is a shining example of how VfD can work to produce a high-quality article from a relatively unpromising start (Shoe flinging was another memorable example). Antandrus 16:25, 22 Nov 2004 (UTC)
  • Keep. Mark Richards 17:37, 22 Nov 2004 (UTC)
  • Keep. Great work. [[User:GRider|GRider\talk]] 18:20, 22 Nov 2004 (UTC)
  • Keep: What's the difference between mashed potatoes and pea soup? Anyone can mash potatoes! [[User:Bobdoe|-- Bobdoe (Talk)]] 23:44, 22 Nov 2004 (UTC)
  • Keep. Should there not be a protocol for early removal of listings which clearly are not going to be deleted. What is the purpose of keeping this page up for 7 days? --Tagishsimon (talk)
    • I don't think so. It would just another dollop of complexity to our procedure. And we'd probably need to have a page for "Votes For Early Removal Of Votes For Deletion Discussions Discussions." And concomitant flamewars. And a page for "Votes for Unremoval Of Deletion Discussions That Were Removed Early Out Of Process..." I customarily skip VfD discussions in which the outcome is obvious. Anyway, speaking as one of the editors who helped improve it, I get a warm fuzzy out of watching the lengthening string of "keeps" and compliments. I just don't bother voting in discussions where I think the outcome is determined. [[User:Dpbsmith|Dpbsmith (talk)]] 19:15, 23 Nov 2004 (UTC)
    • Dpbsmith, the process, although convoluted (complex isn't the word) is never followed to the tee. I've seen many articles remain on VfD for over 2 weeks (which were posted properly). Some streamlining of the process can and should be done. But this isn't the forum for that. [[User:Radman1|RaD Man (talk)]] 22:42, 23 Nov 2004 (UTC)

This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like other '/delete' pages is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion or on the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.

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