Talk:VR6 engine

Edits

I've made several minor changes:

1. I removed the VW Touareg. The Touareg uses a traditional V6, not a VR6.
2. I added the Jetta and specified that the VR6 is available on Golf/Jetta III and IV, not just the third generation.
3. I specified that the VR6 is only available on B4 Passats. Earlier and later Passats did not feature the VR6.
4. I mentioned the upcoming 3.6 L VR6, which will go into the B6 Passats (not yet released). This engine will also probably go into a high performance Golf, which will be called the R36.
5. I mentioned Audi applications of the VR6. The 3.2 L version is available in the Audi TT and will be available in the new generation A3. I'm not sure if a VR6 is available in the current generation A3, but surely someone knows.

In the future I would like to write briefly about the different VR6 variants (12 valve, 24 valve, 2.8 L, 3.2 L, 3.6 L). TomTheHand 00:25, Feb 4, 2005 (UTC)

I was wrong about the Touareg not using a VR6 ;-) TomTheHand 17:02, Mar 1, 2005 (UTC)

Talking about W engines

I've added a section that briefly mentions W configuration engines which are based on the VR6 design. I'd like to expand this a LITTLE but not too much. Essentially, it seems inefficient to try to explain the narrow-angle engine concept in the VR6, W8, W12, and W16 articles, so I was thinking that we could explain its applications here, and in the VR6-derivative articles we could refer back to this. Does that sound alright? Either way, I know a bunch of little factoids but I'm kind of a crappy writer, so I appreciate any help with this. TomTheHand 17:02, Apr 13, 2005 (UTC)

B6 Passat motor

Although the VW Vortex article refers to the 3.6 as a VR6, I'm not sure VW offically considers it such. It uses an even narrower 10.6 degree cylinder offset (as opposed to the 15 degree offset of the 2.8 and 3.2 litre motors). The only reason the 3.2 still qualified as a member of the VR family is that it was essentially an enlargment of the 24-valve 2.8. Can someone please verify without doubt that the 3.6 is still considered a member of the VR family? Also, I'm going to slightly modify the bit about VR6s having FSI since 2005, since this is not entirely true. The Touraeg, Cayenne and TT are still going to be using non-FSI versions of the 3.2 and AFAIK, the European market 3.2 Passat is not going to be FSI equipped.

This Google search [1] shows places on VW.com where the new 3.6L engine is referred to as a VR6. If you look here [2] on VW UK's site, you'll find an option on the pulldown for the 3.2L FSI engine. It looks like 2006 is going to be the big year for the 3.2L FSI VR6, so you're right, the TT, Touareg and Cayenne don't have it as of 2005. I would assume that they'll all have the FSI engine next year. TomTheHand 20:42, August 21, 2005 (UTC)

VR6 in Touareg

I'm somewhat confused by the idea of the VR6 being put into the Touareg, since its primary advantage is its ability to fit well in transverse applications. Nevertheless, I've seen several sources stating that the VR6 is indeed the Touareg's engine. Here are a few:

[3] [4] [5] [6] [7]

I can see how these could possibly just be mistaken assumptions, but to me the best proof that the Touareg uses the VR6 is the fact that one of the Volkswagen R GT concepts brought to the 2005 SEMA show was a Touareg modified by HPA Motorsports, a company that specializes in turbocharging VR6's. All three cars (a Jetta, a Passat, and a Touareg) featured twin-turbocharged VR6's. I haven't seen pictures under the hood, but I can't imagine HPA suddenly pulling a twin-turbochaged Audi or Porsche V6 out of thin air when they've done all VR6 work for years.

[8]

I've also never seen a reliable source state that the engine in the Touareg and Cayenne is specifically NOT the VR6. I would imagine, since everyone says it IS, that someone would try to contradict them if it's not the case. TomTheHand 21:41, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

Oh, look at the under-hood shot of a Touareg on this page (which was also linked above). That is a VR6. TomTheHand 21:44, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

SOHC/DOHC

Hey Anais1983, just wanted to address the SOHC/DOHC issue with you. I've read the rest of the paragraph, specifically the next part referring to a DOHC inline-six. I promise. You see, I'm the one who wrote it.

All VR6 engines have two camshafts. The 12 valve VR6 has one camshaft per cylinder bank. Each camshaft controls the all of the valves (both intake and exhaust) for that bank. That's how a SOHC V6 works: two camshafts, and each camshaft controls one bank. The 24 valve VR6 also has two camshafts, but one camshaft controls every intake valve in both banks, and the other one controls every exhaust valve. That's how a DOHC inline-6 works: two camshafts, one camshaft controls all the exhaust valves, one controls all the intake valves. The point of the paragraph is to compare the differences between the two engines: in the way the cams are used, one is V6-like while the other is straight-6-like. TomTheHand 02:15, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Balance shaft/costs

Can anyone provide some insight as to balance with this engine? My understanding is that a 60-degree V-6 is inherently balanced, and that any other v-angle creates vibration that has to be remediated either through changing crank design and/or adding a balance shaft. At a 10.5-degree angle, these forces must be dealt with somehow.

Do all VR6's have a balance shaft? Is there anything unique about the crank and/or balance shaft in the VR6 design? Does the design result in a high production cost? (It seems that the latter is likely true, because when VW has had the engine compartment space and opportunity, like the last-generation Passat, they have used a fairly standard V6 rather than the VR6.)

I'd appreciate any insight on this from anyone familiar with the VR6 and V-engine balance issues. It seems important to understanding VW's achievment with this engine, and explaining why no other maufacturer has widely adopted anything similar. Meersman 22:41, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

How many main bearings?

Is the firing interval, 120 degrees, or something uneven? How many throws, on the crankshaft? CorvetteZ51 12:21, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

The firing interval is 120 degrees same as an inline 6. Theres 7 main bearings, same as an inline 6. 24.8.219.134 (talk) 22:54, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

Mercedes V-class

In my opinion there was a 2.8l VR6-version planted ino the Mercedes V-class (because due to the small enginebay the mercs own engine did'nt fit -so they bought the VR6 from VW). Max—Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.131.142.132 (talk) 23:11, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

6 cylinders in small cars

The article currently says: "In 1992, with the introduction of the Volkswagen Golf Mk3, a six-cylinder engine was available for the first time in a lower-midsize segment hatchback in Europe." I'm not convinced that this is entirely correct – it might hinge on the exact definition of "lower-midsize segment hatchback" – but the Mazda MX-3 might have been available a few months earlier. At the least the Mazda deserves a mention in this context. --BjKa (talk) 15:03, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

Lancia had narrow-angle V-engines too

Throughout its existence, the Lancia firm has selected Vee engines with various narrow cylinder-bank angles (example : Lancia Lambda of the 1920's). The purpose was so that a single overhead camshaft could be used for both cylinder banks. The cylinders were indeed offset ; geometrically, that's the only way such narrow angles could have been used. Ít's not as though Volkswagen thought up the narrow bank-angle idea itself. 4.154.253.76 (talk) 19:15, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

Overhead view of piston arrangements illustration

Wouldn't it make more sense to replace the I4 with an I6? Seems to me, the idea behind the VR6 was to create a six cylinder engine shorter than an inline design and not as wide as a traditional V design. Using an engine with a different number of cylinders does not make a good comparison. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.115.72.4 (talk) 15:07, 30 August 2013 (UTC)