Talk:Cornbread

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Yellow v. white

From the article: "While various colors of cornmeal are used, the preference in the north tends to be for yellow cornmeal, whereas the south is heavily biased towards white cornmeal."

I have never seen cornbread made of white cornmeal and live in the south, and quite enjoy cornbread. I wonder if this was someone added this intending to make some sort of unsavory inference (even though as a strange a place it is to do so)... because really, I have never seen white cornbread!--172.175.232.83 09:57, 30 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I live in the south and my grandfather makes white cornbread several times a week. 12.162.189.80 18:32, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

I have lived in both north and south. I think the color doesn't matter much. Both places use yellow and white. The Sweet and Salty issue is the real truth though. I never had sweet corn bread until I moved up north. Harmon1630 — Preceding undated comment added 23:36, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

The Cracker Barrel restaurant chain, found all over the Deep South, puts a small amount of sugar in their cornmeal batter. Or at least they did when I worked at one in the early 1990s. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.41.40.21 (talk) 18:37, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

I grew up in Mississippi and never knew white corn meal even existed until I moved out of the state. I can't speak for everywhere else, but white cornmeal being used in cornbread is very uncommon there. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.179.24.23 (talk) 18:52, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

I'm from the South, and have never seen white cornmeal or cornbread. All the cornmeal I've seen is yellow. This is true in Florida, Georgia, and the Carolinas. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 136.182.158.129 (talk) 22:01, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Lived in the south all my life and both yellow and white, as well as sweet and salty cornbread was always just as common as the other. This being in Louisiana and Mississippi. (72.204.147.63 (talk) 16:03, 15 November 2009 (UTC))

In southeastern Kentucky, where I grew up and "bread" meant cornbread, we never used yellow meal (as "cornmeal" was called). And the old people in particular considered the "brought-on" degerminated kind inferior to the whole-grain kind we raised and had ground at the local mill. Eleanor1944 (talk) 02:11, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

Indian Pone v. Cornbread: To merge or not to merge?

• merge Simply gives a recipe for cornbread under a different name. --Kerowyn 09:06, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
• Yeah, do that Merge thing. Jack Cain 00:55, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
• I vote to merge these two articles. --Dumarest 12:29, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
• i vote against the merge, cornbread is made traditionally in many countries, such as in Mexico. 213.16.187.96 18:03, 1 April 2006 (UTC)
• Indian Pone and Cornbread are not the same thing. Merging these two distinct foodstuffs would not only diminish the efficacy of wikipedia (why not just link the two seperate articles), but it would represent a factually and culturally incorrect attempt at doublespeak. Although the origins of breads amde from corn may have originated in native american cultures, the traditional southern cake bread that is "corn pone" is an evolutionary step away from "indian pone." Don't merge them. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.137.30.224 (talk) 20:17, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
• Why would you merge?! WHY?!? Haha - honestly, though, why would anyone in their right mind merge "corn bread" with a crazy Indian dish? That's like merging "spicy lamb stew" with "lamb boonah". Jeez! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.203.82.216 (talk) 22:08, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
• I grew up in the South, eating what I just read about in the article titled Indian Pone, and calling it cornbread. I am less inclined to classify other corn products listed as cornbread by wikipedia than indian pone. Pone, as I see it, is just a cornbread cupcake. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Verdad (talk • contribs) 20:45, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
• Though the two may be linked historically, cornbread has since become a southern tradition. The two should remain seperate, because modern times have seperated the two to such an extent it would be ludicrous to merge them. pone and cornbread, though similar, are totally different, due to recipe changes and location. Merging the two would generalize the two when they are both completely seperate entities...enough said. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 166.82.227.62 (talk) 22:30, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
• Cornbread is generic. Corn pone is specific. I agree that there isn't a lot of difference, but it's a sticky wicket. I'm gonna merge them into the generic article, since the vote seems to be 6-3 in favor, remove the notice, and add the disambiguation reference. If you feel strongly against the merger, revert, and we'll debate some more.Iamvered 22:11, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Cornmeal or corn meal?

"White cornmeal is preferred over yellow corn meal in the southern United States". Is it one word or two? If it can be spelled either way then the article should really standardise one one. Thryduulf 16:58, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

in the south west US yellow corn meal is preffered206.80.29.190 (talk) 15:42, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Hushpuppies

What about hushpuppies? Verdad 20:45, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Sign your comments!

Please remember as we debate the finer points of cornbread to sign your comments with four tildes (~~~~) Iamvered 22:06, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

The 'chemically, rather than by yeast' statement in the intro

Yeast leaveners raise chemically also, so couldn't we find another description rather than 'chemically'? Also, I don't know where eggs would fit into the 'mix'. Anchoress 02:14, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Well, yeah, technically it's a chemical process, as is life in general, but I think the implication is that baking powder and baking soda/buttermilk use an acid-base reaction, while yeast action involves the whole series of biochemical reactions that are involved in providing energy to the cell, which is of course much more complicated. As for the eggs, they provide a protein matrix to support the bread, since corn lacks usable gluten. Haikupoet 02:59, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

The implication in note no. 1 that cornbread is made with yeast needs to be removed. It is made, as the introductory sentence of the article states, with baking soda (and without yeast!). But there is no mention of the other essential ingredient (other than cornmeal), that is, buttermilk (although in emergencies I have been known to substitute vinegar or lemon juice). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Eleanor1944 (talk • contribs) 04:42, 16 April 2012 (UTC)

Picture

Could anyone put a good description of what that pan made cornbread picture is exactly?

jptdrake 07:24, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

My picture is a Lodge 12" cast iron skillet

68.184.117.135 (talk) 21:39, 4 May 2012 (UTC)Zankopedia

Trivia

Should there be a trivia section? For example, 2 Gryphon used Cornbread as an incitive to get his co-host to do his segment of the show ("Furry News"). Tikuko 18:27, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Umm say what now? 65.12.135.63 16:45, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

Broa

What about merging the article Broa with this one, it would make sense to me.--194.251.240.117 06:46, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

I support merging. Jo7hs2 22:35, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

Yes, Broa is a type of cornbread which whould be described here, not in a separate article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.217.91.94 (talk) 23:37, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

Slang Usage: "Eating the Cornbread"

"The term "eating the cornbread" is also used in sports talk radio to refer to fans who digest everything that a team's management says and believes it without question. It derives from the time of slavery when the slave masters had cornbread as a staple of the slaves' food because it was cheap to buy and filling to eat. In today's context, the fans are slaves to the team ownership and eat everything the team gives them willingly and hungrily, even if it is a substandard product.

The Detroit Lions mandated that the non-rights holding sportsradio station in Detroit, Michigan WDFN stop calling their postgame show "The WDFN Detroit Lions Postgame Show". So, in a majority of the fans vote on line, on October 21, 2007, the Lions postgame show on WDFN was officially called "Cornbread Corner" hosted by Sean Baligian.

See also: Drink the Kool-Aid"

I have deleted the section found above in quotes. This entry belongs on Urban Dictionary, not Wikipedia. This is for a number of reasons. First, the inherant racial undertones are not exceeded by the informative nature of the entry. Second, the it totally irrelevant to the article. Third, it is an un-common slang usage that does not merit inclusion in an ENCYCLOPEDIA. If a desire is expressed to discuss how slaves were fed cornbread due to cost, that might be a logical way of introducing this slang term, but on its own it does not possess an informative content significant enough to merit inclusion here. Finally, and most importantly, this is a short-term reference relating to a single sports show episode that is unlikely to catch on. It seems like the poster was motivated more by love of the show than the desire to present information. Stick it on Urban Dictionary. Jo7hs2 22:32, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

This is just stupid

Removed this:

Eating the Cornbread

The term "eating the cornbread" is also used in sports talk radio to refer to fans who digest everything that a team's management says and believes it without question. It derives from the time of slavery when the slave masters had cornbread as a staple of the slaves' diet because it was cheap to buy and filling to eat. In today's context, the fans are slaves to the team ownership and eat everything the team gives them willingly and hungrily, even if it is a substandard product.

This is just stupid. Not everyone plays sport and is a american, keep this food related guys. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 14:49, 13 April 2008 (talk) 58.170.62.8 (UTC)

Not baked but fried

Cornpone is not baked but fried in traditions I am aware of. I think this should be corrected in the main article. I'll wait and see if anyone doesnt agree. Certainly at the very least it should say "baked or fried" Carlw4514 (talk) 16:04, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

Poorly written

I do not mean to insult the author(s) of this article, but it is horribly written. It reads like a grade school essay. It needs not just a series of revisions, but to be chucked in its entirety and re-written from scratch in encyclopedic style with sources cited. I see nothing salvageable.72.11.124.226 (talk) 16:46, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for your suggestion. When you believe an article needs improvement, please feel free to make those changes. Wikipedia is a wiki, so anyone can edit almost any article by simply following the edit this page link at the top. The Wikipedia community encourages you to be bold in updating pages. Don't worry too much about making honest mistakes—they're likely to be found and corrected quickly. If you're not sure how editing works, check out how to edit a page, or use the sandbox to try out your editing skills. New contributors are always welcome. You don't even need to log in (although there are many reasons why you might want to). Jonathunder (talk) 03:00, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

This article has much good material, but it is confused and inconsistent in some ways. The only way anyone could really fix it would be to completely reorganize it--essentially rewriting it largely from scratch. I would hesitate to do so, for part of the inconsistency seems to be based on geographical variations, even within the American South. And I'm sure there are places, especially cities, where outside, non-Southern influences have entered. Part of the confusion seems also to result from accounts by people without any real personal tradition of this food. Notwithstanding wikipedia's insistence on "reliable" published sources, this is the sort of subject where personal experience is best, especially if it takes into account regional variation.

The following passage from the article provides one example of confusion

"Skillet-fried or skillet-baked cornbread (often simply called skillet bread or hoecake depending on the container in which it is cooked) is a traditional staple of rural cuisine in the United States, especially in the South. This involves heating bacon drippings, lard or other oil in a heavy, well-seasoned cast iron skillet in an oven, and then pouring a batter made from cornmeal, egg, and milk directly into the hot grease. The mixture is returned to the oven to bake into a large, crumbly and sometimes very moist cake with a crunchy crust. This bread tends to be dense and usually served as an accompaniment rather than as a bread served as a regular course."

For one thing, this completely confuses baked cornbread (yes, traditionally with the skillet or pan greased with lard, but with many people today substituting oil or whatever) and hoe cakes (which are fried as small cakes rather than as one large pone).The distinction is not the container, as bread can be baked in a skillet or fried in the same skillet as hoe cakes. As for ingredients, eggs are optional (some members of my family always have disagreed on this). As for milk, it has to be butter milk in order for the bread to rise. And a passage such as "usually served as an accompaniment rather than as a bread served as a regular course" seems to represent mere personal, even perhaps eccentric, preference,as the big hot pone of "bread" traditionally has been a main part of a big meal. Parts of this passage seem to represent good advice (e.g., heating the skillet first) but not necessarily how it is usually done. And there are many other subtleties; for example, hoe cakes tend, at least in my experience, to be something prepared in a hurry, not for Sunday dinner (although they an be even better than a baked pone). As for crumbling it in milk, that is true (my mother loved a snack of "milk and bread") but that normally is just a way of using cold leftovers for, say, a midnight snack. Sorry, I don't mean to be cranky about all this. Eleanor1944 (talk) 20:58, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

My favourite part is the description of poor children's lunches. Yum yum. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.201.225.70 (talk) 17:37, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

A postscript to my comments of 17 April: After talking to other members of my family, including the best cooks, I want to say that although my statement about a pre-heated, pre-greased iron skillet is correct (i.e., that this is not always done), this is indeed recommented. Also, I am told that although buttermilk is not absolutely essential, cornbread made with "sweet milk" (the Southern term for milk that has not become "blinky" and "clabbered" and then churned) is not very good. That is probably one reason--in addition (horror of horrors!)to sugar having been added--some cornbread I have eaten in restuarants is not up to par. Of course, baking powder includes both acid and alkaline. Something else I had forgotten and that is not included in the article either is that some people used to make "sody bread," which included baking soda in addition to baking power (and turned the bread, which of course was made of white meal, yellow). Eleanor1944 (talk) 19:37, 29 April 2012 (UTC)

Another kind of cornbread I saw/tried once or twice in the 1950s (and didn't care much for) is "grit bread," made of fresh corn that is too hard for use as roasting ears. I had forgotten the term, but an older person refreshed my memory. Eleanor1944 (talk) 19:39, 29 April 2012 (UTC)

Incorrect statement as to the origin of cornbread

I strongly decry the statement that cornbread originated from soul food. In fact, Native Americans had been eating nyxtamalized and untreated maize for centuries before the first African was introduced to the Americas. The first European settlers also adopted maize as a staple and useful food. Grits, hoecakes, hominy and all sorts of unleavened maize breads must, in all fairness, be credited to the cultures of the Native Americans from which they actually originated. Does anyone object to correcting this statement?Cobaltcanarycherry (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 19:15, 14 February 2012 (UTC).

Origin? Native American; sure. I think the statement already in the article about European's combining their own cooking techniques to form their own recipes is correct. I think of the the Navtive Americans cooking as a more flat corn cake/bread and the Europeans using leavening to make the fluffier variety unless I'm wrong on that account. Did the NA's leaven? Avalon321 (talk) 04:54, 25 February 2012 (UTC)

Apparently, the NA's used wood ashes for a crude form of leavening. So, not yeast or baking powder/soda, but a chemically similar substitute, and this was adopted by colonists. I have a reference on a commercial website. What would be an adequate reference for the article?Cobaltcanarycherry (talk) 04:08, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

"Light cornbread"

I've moved " In the border states and parts of the Upper South, a cross between the two traditions is known as "light cornbread."" here to discuss. It's obviously unsourced. What I found that relates if not to border states but to the Civil War is "light cornbread A spongy cornbread made by southern soldiers (and often by their northern prisoners). The soft part of the cornbread was soaked overnight, making it sour. This was whipped into a light, sweet batter by adding soda. New extra meal was then added to provide more body before the bread was baked." from The Language of the Civil War## By John D. Wright[1], repeated at [2]. I can find recipes for a "light cornbread" but they are made with cornmeal and flour and don't say anything about being a cross. I'll check my cornbread cookbooks next. Dougweller (talk) 11:04, 19 April 2015 (UTC)

British bakers and supermarkets sell a yeast cornbread

The Portuguese also make a yeasted cornbread.[3] And here's a recipe for an American one.[4] Doug Weller talk 21:39, 30 November 2017 (UTC)

Quick bread or cake?

The article says it's a quick bread, but it's on List of cakes which identifies it as such. Which one is it? TypoEater (talk) 16:15, 2 October 2023 (UTC)