Talk:David Thompson (explorer)

Mackenzie and Thompson

Is there a source for this statement: "Alexander Mackenzie despised Thompson and wrote a letter to the king denouncing him for marrying a Métis." I haven't been able to find anything on the Internet that supports it. Sunray 07:09, 2004 Dec 9 (UTC)

I've done extensive reading from primary and secondary documents on both Thompson and Mackenzie, and have found absolutely nothing about their relationship. Furthermore, it would be unusual for someone in the fur trade to be "despised" for marrying a Metis as this was a common practice. On the other hand, according to George Nelson's journal, Mackenzie did not like it when Nelson, his XY Company employee, took a Native wife (see Peers & Schenk's edition of Nelson's memoirs, _My first years in the fur trade: The journals of 1802-1804_.) But I would very much like to see documentation on this specific claim about Thompson and Mackenzie. Country Wife 15:25, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for your comment. Given the strong wording and lack of a source, I have removed the statement from the text. If we find evidence that Mackenzie made such a statement we can put it back in the article. Sunray 15:58, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Should Thompson be considered Welsh?

On 8 July 2006, Ccscott removed Thompson from the Welsh Canadian category on the grounds that Thompson was born in London, not Wales. This is true. However, his claim to being Welsh rests on the fact that his father was Welsh. Is this sufficient? --Country Wife 01:15, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

It seems to me that that since he was born in London, and that there is no record (that I know of) that he ever lived in, or even visited Wales, he would not be considered a Welsh explorer. I have no problem with it being noted in the article that he was born to Welsh parents but the category listing of 'Welsh Explorer' is a little misleading/confusing in my opinion. --Thylark 15:14, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

This facet of Thompson was started by Bigsby in his book, The Shoe and The Canoe. Bigsby travelled with Thompson on the boundary surveys of 1820-24 and took a bit of literary license when he said he had the sound of a Welshman. Considering Thompson had lived among Scots, English, French and Cree for almost 40 year before Bigsby met him, he likely had a "northern" patois—a blend of all three dialects in terms of cadence, but a firm grasp of English. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Speake158 (talk • contribs) 01:31, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

New Caption on Image

It should be noted that this is a very speculative artistic impression of Thompson, as no historic image of him exists. Also, why include the reference to Charlotte Small as 'the Woman of the Paddle Song'.This moniker only comes from a FICTIONAL book written in recent years.I have also removed the reference to Charlotte being Métis. She would most likely not have been familiar with the term 'Métis', which was not yet in common usage at that time, nor did she ever belong to an established Métis community.

Thompson would nver have won that. He was a strong believer in woollen clothing over fur and leather because the latter two do not retain heat when wet. When writing of the Cree in his Travels, Thompson states, "It may be said they can clothe themselves with their furrs; this can be only true in the winter months and even then their weight is very inconvenient in the warm seasons. Exposed to all weather, the furrs would soon rot and become a very pest to the wearer, and Indians are so sensible of this that while they can procure woollen clothing, they never make use of furrs for that purpose." At least he wasn't shown wearing a tri-corner hat! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Speake158 (talk • contribs) 01:27, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

Edit to "NorthWest Company"

I removed the statement "In 1797, Thompson was sent south by his employers to survey of much of the Canada-U.S. boundary along the 49th parallel in the west, and from the St. Lawrence River to Lake of the Woods to satisfy unresolved questions of territory arrising from the Jay Treaty between Great Britain and the United States." Jul/Aug 2007 Canadian Geographic says that he completed this survey in 1817 (exact phrase used is "1817: Surveys the Canada/U.S. border from Lake of the Woods to the Eastern Townships in Quebec"). Since he just joined the NWC in 1797 I think it was right to remove it. I included reference to this expedition in the "Later Years" section. I haven't done a lot of reading on the subject (just this magazine article) but I find it hard to believe he would have completed the same expedition in 1797 and 1817, especially since he didn't move to Eastern Canada till 1812. If anyone can find a citation to reverse this then by all means. Zatoichi26 02:24, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

My understanding that In 1817 he was indeed employed to survey the borders set up after the War of 1812. However, previously in 1797-98, he was sent by the NWC to determine the border with the US as set by a earlier treaty in order to ensure the company was collecting furs from allowed territories. I've added back in the previous info and worked in your edits. (see: here, Paragraph 12). Ccscott 06:19, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

ok - thanks! my bad.. Zatoichi26 22:53, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

In an earlier draft of his Travels (Manuscript III, p 65-6), Thompson describes his mission: "My instructions were to examine and survey the rivers southward of the great Saskatchewan river and to determine the exact place of the very head of the Mississippi River, descend it as far as safety would allow, from there to the river St Louis by which to descend to the southwest end of Lake Superior and survey the south side of to the Falls of St. Maries. It was supposed to take me two years but by hard marching I accomplished it in eleven months." It is unknown why he shifted the story but the earlier version is correct.--Speake158 (talk) 15:36, 25 January 2009 (UTC) Speake158 (talk) 07:09, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

I think the problem with this section is that he was not sent to survey the 49th parallel in 1797, what he was sent to do was to find the headwaters of the Mississippi and the "water communication between Lake Superior and Lake of the Woods". Both of these locations where not known well enough in 1783 so that the Treaty of Paris description of the boundary was impossible. The Northwest Company headquarters at Grand Portage is in what is now Minnesota and they wanted to know if they needed to move, which later they did. The significance of the headwaters of the Mississippi was that this represented the western boundary of the US at the time, meaning that the Northwest company was free to trade in what was to become North Dakota without paying US duties, etc. Only after the Louisiana purchase in 1803 did locating a boundary west of Lake of the Woods become an issue. Interestingly no boundaries appear on his 1814 map. After his time in the west, Thompson was later employed to survey parts of the boundary the east, but never the 49th parallel which was only agreed to in 1818 and not surveyed until many years later. I am going to edit out the term "49th parallel" from this section, as well as remove some vandalism. Kpgokeef (talk) 22:43, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

Thompson's Broken Leg

I removed the statement that Thompson's leg was broken "in a sledding accident". Thompson describes his fracture as follows: "on coming down a rude steep bank I fell and broke the large bone of my right leg and had to be hauled home". (Narrative, Glover ed., p.55 http://link.library.utoronto.ca/champlain/DigObj.cfm?Idno=9_96867&lang=eng&Page=0158&Size=3&query=william%20tomison&searchtype=Fulltext&startrow=1&Limit=All) ) He does not state that he was sledding; he could have been walking or snowshoeing. The bank may have been the steep bank of the North Saskatchewan River, near the fur post. Country Wife 14:52, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Thompson broke his right femur ("the large bone of my right leg") and crushed his ankle, according to his Travels. William Tomison at Manchester House writes on 23 December 1788: "David Thompson unfortunately fell coming down the river bank about one mile from the house, by which his leg was caught between a stick and the sled, which fractured the bone and otherwise bruised his leg very much." (Hudson Bay Company Archives B.121/a/2)

speake158 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Speake158 (talk • contribs) 01:23, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

Thompson's Children

Although Thompson had 13 children with Charlotte (and, it has been suggested, another child with another woman during his fur trade years), only the first five were born during his time in the fur trade. Thompson's children were: Fanny, born 10 Jun 1801, Rocky Mountain House; Samuel, born 5 Mar 1804, Peace River Forks; Emma, born March 1806, Reed Lake House, died 22 Feb 1814 (Montreal?); John, born 25 Aug 1808, Boggy Hall, Saskatchewan, died 15 Jan 1814, Terrebonne village; Joshua, born 28 Mar 1811, Fort Augustus; Henry, born 30 July 1813, Terrebonne village, died 23 Oct 1855; Charlotte, born 7 July 1815, Terrebonne village; Elizabeth, born 25 April 1817, Williamstown; William, born 9 Nov 1819, Williamstown; Thomas, born 10 July 1822, Williamstown; George, born 13 July 1824, Williamstown; Mary, born 2 April 1827, Williamstown; Eliza, born 4 March 1829, Williamstown. Country Wife 15:17, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

As for Thompson's family always accompanying him on all his travels, that is also incorrect; for example, Fanny was in a Montreal boarding school in 1810. Also, in July 1810, Thompson was expecting the North West Company to send him on a year's furlough to Montreal, so he leaves his family at Lake Winnipeg. See: Nisbet, Jack. _Sources of the River: Tracking David Thompson Across Western North America_, pp. 165,174 Thompson also gave a detailed list of the men and canoes accompanying him to the mouth of the Columbia in 1811; none of his family were listed. Country Wife 15:33, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Spelling of Ile-a-la-Crosse

This word is almost certainly misspelled in the main article. The accent on the letter 'a' probably should be grave (rather than acute). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.105.157.5 (talk) 15:58, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:1957 Thompson Stamp.jpg

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BetacommandBot 08:30, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

"Red Deer Lake" or "The Deer Lake"

The following statement might be confusing Red Deer Lake (which is between Bashaw and Ponoka) with Lac La Biche (The Deer Lake). I never heard of a trading post on Red Deer Lake. Might be something to check.

In 1798, the company sent him to Red Deer Lake (Lac La Biche in present-day Alberta) to establish a trading post. The English translation of Lac la Biche-Red Deer Lake-first appeared on the Mackenzie map of 1793.[6]  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:56A:F730:F200:99F6:B3A4:B317:8294 (talk) 23:40, 14 October 2016 (UTC) 

External links modified

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this article needs more references

There are a number of paragraphs throughout the article that do not have any citations. Specifically, in the following sections:

• Hudson's Bay Company (HBC) (2 paras)
• North West Company (2 paras)
• Columbia River travels (3 paras)
• Later years (2 paras)
• Death and afterward (3 paras)

Please do not remove the maintenance tag until this has been resolved. Thanks. —howcheng {chat} 16:35, 7 July 2017 (UTC)

I've added references to support the material mentioned. In a couple of cases I can't find a suitable source, and I've marked these with citation needed tags. I'll remove the maintenance tag now. Kognos (talk) 14:35, 2 August 2020 (UTC)

External links modified

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Reasons for leaving HBC

The article states that Thompson left because he was "frustrated by Hudson's Bay Company's policies over promoting the use of alcohol with indigenous people", but does not cite any source for this. This may have been one of his reasons - Thompson was certainly strongly opposed to the liquor trade - but I can find no reference to this being an issue between him and HBC in the period leading up to his departure. On the other hand, it's clear from David Thompson's narrative (https://archive.org/details/davidthompsonsna12thom) that a major reason for leaving was the order to cease surveying and focus on the fur trade. Thompson believed (correctly) that the North-West company would support a balance between the two activities. If I can find a source for the alcohol issue I will reference both as reasons, otherwise I will reword to just mention surveying. Kognos (talk) 09:41, 30 July 2020 (UTC)

Further reading, particularly of Nisbet Sources of the River has turned up nothing to suggest that liquor was a factor in Thompson leaving HBC, and clearly suggests that both HBC and NWC had similar policies. So I'm taking out the reference. Kognos (talk) 10:29, 9 August 2020 (UTC)