User talk:Eric Herboso

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Proposed deletion of Black Nexxus

The article Black Nexxus has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

Non-notable stub. Could only find one source that actually discussed this in any depth, and only because a friend of the owner wrote about it [1].

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the page to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. CaptainEek ^{Edits Ho Cap'n!}⚓ 14:12, 20 August 2020 (UTC)

Tesla Founders comment

Thanks for your input, very astute observations. That said, I think the last paragraph might need a little copyediting - it looks like the line should read "To those who believe that (B) is more appropriate than (C), I will point out that you may be tempted to prefer (B) solely because WP:INFOBOXREF strongly and directly disincentivizes (C)" instead of "To those who believe that (C) is more appropriate than (B), I will point out that you may be tempted to prefer (B) solely because WP:INFOBOXREF strongly and directly disincentivizes (C)." QRep2020 (talk) 13:19, 29 August 2020 (UTC)

HSUS

Hi Eric,

Thank you for your recent and thoughtful feedback about edits I have proposed for HSUS Wikipedia pages. In your most recent feedback concerning the HSUS project chimps relationship, you expressed concern that the claim I am making concerning Project Chimps being controlled by HSUS is an opinion. In fact, this is not a matter of opinion. Project Chimps is listed on HSUS’ very own 990 IRS filing as a “direct controlling entity”. For HSUS to state otherwise is false and that is why I edited this section; to reveal the fact and to correct their misleading statement.

Please see page 96, line 15, column f of this link.

https://www.humanesociety.org/sites/default/files/docs/HSUS%202018%20990.pdf

Can you please reconsider in light of this citation.

Thank you! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Diligence311 (talk • contribs) 17:45, 17 November 2020 (UTC)

@Diligence311: The phrase "controlling entity" is used here not because HSUS was directing how Project Chimps was run, but because the IRS defines "control" in such a way that HSUS is considered to be a "controlling entity" of Project Chimps due to the fact that a majority of the Board of Directors for Project Chimps at the time were also simultaneously employees of HSUS. From the link: "[A] (parent) organization controls a (subsidiary) nonprofit organization if a majority of the subsidiary's directors or trustees are trustees, directors, officers, employees, or agents of the parent." This is a legal tax term; it does not necessarily mean that one org actually tells the other what to do. HSUS claims that it considered Project Chimps to be entirely autonomous from HSUS in terms of how it operates. Activists might dispute that, and I think it would be encyclopedic to say "activists dispute that" in the "Criticisms" section of the HSUS article, but HSUS is directly contradicting the idea that PC is under their control in a non-legal sense, even if they technically have "control" in a legal sense.

Further, to make the issue much more clear, two of those employees resigned from the PC board, meaning that, even legally, the HSUS is no longer considered a legally controlling entity of PC. So if you do add this info into the criticism section, it will have to be in past tense, as it is no longer the case as of July 2020. ("Two HSUS senior staff members who had been serving on the Project Chimps board stepped down from those roles on July 12, 2020.")

Personally, I would not add this info to the HSUS page. I don't think it is a serious allegation against HSUS, even though it definitely is a serious allegation against PC. But I think it would be acceptable if the "criticism" section of the HSUS article mentioned that activists think that HSUS did control PC in a non-legal sense before July 2020, and you could cite a secondary source that says this is because of the IRS report. But you cannot cite the IRS report directly; that's a primary source. You need to cite someone else saying that the IRS report is evidence that HSUS was indeed controlling PC in a non-legal sense at the time. However, if the source you choose doesn't even distinguish between the different definitions of "control" in a legal tax form and in everyday usage, then they are trying to mislead people, and that makes it a less reputable source in my opinion.

Finally, it might be confusing why the IRS forms says it is a "direct controlling entity". The "direct" here does not mean that HSUS directs PC; rather, it just means that, as a controlling entity, there is no intermediary between them. It is a direct relationship, rather than a relationship that goes through a middle-man. — Eric Herboso 22:22, 17 November 2020 (UTC)

Eric,

While I appreciate your detailed explanation, I do need to clarify a few things that I feel sway the argument to including Project Chimps as a related entity.

1. HSUS pays the salary of the Executive Director of Project Chimps (shown their 990 Schedule O, Supplemental Information

2. The Executive Director of Project Chimps sent an email to all their staff that unequivocally demonstrates that Project Chimps was in the process of being “fully integrated into HSUS” as of 2017 and that Project Chimps computers are “managed under” HSUS's IT dept.

3. HSUS oversees Project Chimps financial statements per Schedule O of their 990, Supplemental Information

4. According to former employees, the email addresses of Project Chimps and HSUS are interchangeable.

5. HSUS pays some of Project Chimps’ bills directly

I have evidence of all statements above but I don't own copyrights to it so not sure how to attach to this correspondence. If this evidence would be compelling in changing your position, please advise how I can send these documents to you.

Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Diligence311 (talk • contribs) 17:10, 18 November 2020 (UTC)

@Diligence311: You don't need copyright to use sources, but you should try to use secondary, not primary, sources. Also, your goal shouldn't be to convince me -- this is a collaborative encyclopedia, so you have as much right to edit articles as I do. My suggestion would be to add a sentence to the "Specific criticism" section, since we both seem to think that that would be appropriate, and then, if you feel strongly that PC should also be added into the "Affiliated and related entities" section, then you could propose that in the HSUS talk page, giving your argument why you think it would be appropriate. I would probably oppose you on the talk page, but remember: we are equals here, and you very well may find that you can get enough people to agree with you on the talk page that a relative consensus could be reached, in which case it would be added.

I'll add that sentence to the "Specific criticism" section, and then you can decide whether you want to bring up adding PC to the "Affiliated and related entities" section on the HSUS Talk page. If you do, please remember to add four tilde (WP:4TILDES) marks to the end of your post; that's how you sign your name on talk pages. — Eric Herboso 20:21, 18 November 2020 (UTC)

@Eric_Herboso OK, I will have to do that b/c I don't understand why you will oppose me as its abundantly clear that Project Chimps is controlled by HSUS. I have two questions please. It is not clear to me how to start a Talk topic on the HSUS page. I was only able to do it on your page. I don't see a clickable button for that on HSUS page. And secondly, if i want to attach screenshot attachments as evidence of my claims, how do I do that. This is my first time using Wikipedia. Thank for the helpfulness. Diligence311 (talk) 21:46, 18 November 2020 (UTC)

@Diligence311: For a full explanation of how to edit talk pages, see WP:TALKPAGE. There's a two and a half minute video on that page that summarizes the key things you need to know. I strongly suggest watching it to understand the basics. Then, when you're ready, go to Talk:Humane_Society_of_the_United_States and explain why you want to add Project Chimps to the "Affiliated and related entities" section. It may take a week or so for people to reply there, but eventually we may reach a relative consensus on what should be done, at which point either PC will be added to that section or it won't. You may also want to link people to this discussion here, if they want additional context. You can do this by linking to User_talk:Eric_Herboso#HSUS. (You can learn about how to link to pages here: Help:Introduction_to_editing_with_Wiki_Markup.)

Rather than trying to share screenshots as evidence, I would recommend that you share the URL of a website that provides that evidence. For example, HelpTheChimps.org/hsus-and-project-chimps shows a copy of HSUS' IRS form 990 and a tweet confirming that an HSUS employee runs Project Chimps. The reason why I don't find this to be compelling evidence is because the 990 merely shows that 5 of the 8 board members of PC were HSUS employees; this is different from saying that HSUS made decisions on what PC had to do. The HelpTheChimps site really hammers in the 990 quote "direct controlling entity", which I find extremely misleading and makes me distrust whoever set up the HelpTheChimps website. But the email you mention that says PC was in the process of being “fully integrated into HSUS” would indeed be much stronger evidence and would definitely be worth seeing.

I apologize if I seem overly skeptical of the anti-HSUS claims. It's just that HSUS gets a lot of fabricated criticism that originates from industrial agriculture lobbying groups like Humane Watch, so it's difficult to tell when anti-HSUS rhetoric is legitimate or not. For all I know, the HelpTheChimps site may have even been funded by Humane Watch, which would make me trust it much less. However, right now I do think I am convinced that Project Chimps has really screwed up here -- what I am less convinced by is whether HSUS told PC to screw up by doing something wrong. It seems likelier to me that PC screwed up by themselves, without input from HSUS. But I could be wrong, and I'm open to seeing evidence that HSUS actively told PC to do things like limit outside exposure for the chimps in order to save money. Regardless, I hope to see you edit HSUS and other pages on Wikipedia in the future! — Eric Herboso 23:16, 18 November 2020 (UTC)

Thanks@Eruc_Herboso. I will follow these steps. And as an aside, I am an animal rights activist and sickened by the work of Humane Watch. My only purpose with these edits is to document facts as it relates to HSUS and Project Chimps and correct misinformation with proper citations. Justice for the chimps takes human voices and intervention to advocate. Thanks again Diligence311 (talk) 22:45, 19 November 2020 (UTC)

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Happy New Year!

Eric Herboso,
Thanks for your contributions to Wikipedia, and a Happy New Year to you and yours! Rasnaboy (talk) 08:52, 31 December 2020 (UTC)

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Category:Wikipedians who participate in Mathematics Collaboration of the Month has been nominated for discussion

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Invitation to support the creation of WikiProject Effective altruism

Hey Eric, I've created a proposal for WikiProject Effective altruism to help coordinate efforts to create and articles related to effective altruism. If you'd like, please support the WikiProject proposal here: Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Proposals/Effective Altruism. Enervation (talk) 06:41, 30 November 2021 (UTC)

Butler County, Alabama

Hi--out of copyright, sure, but copying without proper citation or even quotation marks is not the right way. Thanks, Drmies (talk) 20:49, 20 June 2022 (UTC)

Thank you so much for correcting this 16 year old error! I'm embarrassed to say that this edit of mine from the early 2000s was one of the first edits I made on Wikipedia and it was not a good one. While I did cite the source text in my edit using what was then semi-considered an acceptable Wikipedia citation style, I didn't use quotation marks while copying text from the out-of-copyright book. I regret not being more professional in my early days of Wikipedia. Thankfully, I think it's safe to say that this type of error is one that I haven't made in the past decade or so. Thanks again for finding this and correcting it! — Eric Herboso 20:16, 25 June 2022 (UTC)

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